Gigging thing - opinions, please!

[mrph]

(With apologies to diffrentcolours for poaching the title...)

There's been a fair bit of debate about gigs and promoters elsewhere on LJ today - mostly about a specific incident, but with some discussion of what should be expected/provided, good practice and all that sort of thing.

And thinking about it, there are a few musical and promotery types reading this journal. So...

What advice should be in a FAQ/guide for first time gig promoters?

Or, from the other point of view, for new bands who are about to start playing gigs?
Edit: actually, there seems to be a very decent take on the band's checklist here. Which the gigging thing lyrics indirectly reminded me of... :)

Comments

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

1. If in doubt, make a contract. However basic.

2. Double check, triple check and quadruple check that the venue has sorted out everything they promised well before the day.

3. If possible sort out the sound equipment yourself, or get a reliable sound person in. It looks dead unprofessional if everything goes tits up (been there, done that... not our fault!)

4. Always ensure you have enough money to pay the bands what you promised them. Take it out of your own bank and pay them, then you take the ticket money.door money etc and put it back into your account.

5. Always provide a proper detailed description of what the venue is like in terms of size to avoid dissapointment. Especially noteworthy if you're like us and it's in a small pub with a small stage area about 6 inches higher than the room.

6. Flyer lots.

7. If the bands want drinks or nibbles... try and provide them. It makes them happier and less argumentative :)

8. Buy them a round even if they didn't ask. Makes them even happier. Try not to get them drunk before hand though, you'll get a better show out of a sober band ;)

9. Don't forget to flyer everywhere to death

10. Chat to them, get to know them and be friendly. A miserable promoter isn't someone who bands are going to remember fondly.

Oh and most of all... have fun!

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

Have webspace available if you want to publish the lists anywhere too.

Would be interesting to come up with two decent lists of pointers (for bands and promoters as mentioned) and provide things like sample/template contracts and lists of respectable sound/lighting engineers/venues and such like too.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That idea definitely appeals...

I think this should be done.

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

Inspired by yesterday's conversations we're in the process of sorting out some of these things for Church of Madness anyway, so I think it'd be a good idea.

Just thinking...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Maybe a "so, you want to start a new goth night?" FAQ would also be a worthy addition?

Re: Just thinking...

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

Definately. A few of the gig promoter ones are valid for starting a club too, plus there are some other useful things to check out.

Potentially a seperate FAQ for flyers and flyering hints and tips would be useful as these are generic enough to be useful to bands, gig and club promoters.

Addendum

[mrph.livejournal.com]

6. ...and for more than a week beforehand. Unless you've got a regular slot, at least four weeks is a good span of time to advertise...

7. Food and drink can always be specified in the contract, too. That way you don't get caught offguard when your band turn out to be veggies (or vegan) and can't eat your lovingly prepared ham sandwiches. :)

Addendum 2

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

6... don't just stick to your town either. Spread the advertising as far and wide as possible. Let the band have access to the flyer designs, or send them some printed ones; they have as much interest in the gig being successful as you do. Place the flyer on your website, place links to it on newsgroups, LJ and any other online resource you can find (though probably no more than twice on one site as it looks like spam after that)

Re: Addendum 2

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

This reminds me. Tips on designing decent, effective flyers could be useful too.

If it's electronic make it black and white, not shades of grey/colour. Otherwise it doesn't photocopy properly and just looks shit.

If you can afford it, spend a little extra on decent quality paper rather than using your work photocopier. Decent quality flyers make it look like you care more. Full colour really attracts attention (though can cost a lot)

Don't forget things like venue address, web address, ticket prices, opening/closing times and band lineup on the flyers. It's amazing what people forget to put on!

Make it seem like great value. If it's £3 entry on the door, make the flyer say "£3 entry on the door with this flyer". More people will keep the flyers and remember about the gig if there's a specific reason to keep the thing. Works even better if it's like us and you can't charge entry as we get to put the word "FREE!" on them :)

Don't clutter your flyers with big, complicated colour background images that can obscure the text. If you want a background make sure the text resides within a box that has a single colour background, or at least ensure that it's big enough and bold enough to be obviously different. (include some examples of good and bad flyer designs on the site? - not real flyers though as this may upset the people that spent time designing them)

Re: Addendum 2

[mrph.livejournal.com]

...and do try not to change the date, venue or headliner after you've flyered the whole wide world.

[Case in point: I have a glossy Elektrofest flyer next to me right now. If I hadn't read the latest blurb on http://www.flagpromotions.com I wouldn't know it had moved to the Islington Academy...]

Re: Addendum 2

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

that's handy to know. I wasn't aware that it had moved venue!

Flyer design revisited

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Don't forget that flyers need to be readable in low light conditions - at least if you're flyering clubs. Which is another good reason to use light backgrounds and big, chunky lettering.

You want something that'll look interesting before they actually pick it up - otherwise it risks a short and soggy life as a beermat!

Re: Addendum 2

[shermarama]

Check if the bands have done a flyer; in some cases they might have come up with something better!

I'd like to chime in from my own point of view, which is as a musician.

Sound - the sound engineer is the centre of the whole experience as far as the bands are concerned. The house sound engineer is not God, I've met some very bad ones, in fact the last gig I played saw me doing most of the work of chivvying bands and gear on and off stage to try and get a soundcheck for any of us. I don't expect to have to teach a sound engineer how to use a multimeter to check if a lead is dodgy but I did that night.

And, I view contracts as pretty much a waste of paper unless you're getting into bands with serious management. What's supposed to happen if you don't do something that's written on the piece of paper? There's not the slightest chance of being able to claim redress over anything without good-will between the parties, in which case you don't need a piece of paper. What's the point in being able to wave a piece of paper and complain if the gig turns out rubbish, in the case of either party's fault?

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

11. From a promoter's stand point don't be afraid to turn around half way through discussions with a band and call it off if you don't think it's going to work. But make sure you've a decent reason (i.e. unattainable tech specs), not just that you don't feel like it.

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

12. If you're worried about making all the money back, find yourself a sponsor who can add some extra cash into the day. Your best bets are for people like Grave News, Music Non Stop or Resurrection. Offer something like advertising on your promotion campaign and sole trader rights (of a certain type... in the examples offered the sole CD stall other than band merchandise).

13. Stalls. If you're doing an all day event add some stalls selling CDs, clothes... that sort of thing. It gives people something to do between bands, gives you some extra income to pay for the event and makes a large venue seem fuller in terms of attendance. People judge an event by how packed it looks as much as the bands playing. If it looks packed, it must be popular and people will come back next time and bring friends along :)

14. Don't throw a strop. Remain calm at all times and project a professional image, even if you're running around like a headless chicken. Makes the bands panic less. If something is going seriously wrong on the day, talk to the bands, the venue and everyone else involved. There's probably some way to come to a solution without arguments.

On #14...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Too true. And if something goes seriously wrong, try to deal with it quietly before going loud and public about it.

Unless there's been a real breakdown (the Dublin goth fest springs to mind as one of the few examples. Or the Leipzig where the promoter fled with the funds...), it should all get resolved behind the scenes.

will they never end?!

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

16. Things to make sure you have organised :

bands!
contract with venue
contracts with the bands
Venue
Lighting & lighitng engineer * (if the venue is big enough)
Sound equipment & engineer *
Tickets *
Flyers
Local magazine adverts (national magazine adverts if possible - Terrorizer, Kerrang, Meltdown etc.)
Riders (food and drink for the bands)
Door staff - check if you need to supply these
Cloakroom staff - check if you need to supply these
Tables and chairs - Bands will want a merchandise stall or three, some venues may not supply decent sized tables.
Suitable DJs for between the bands.
Organise a proper timetable for who goes on when and try to stick as closely to it as possible (this includes sound checking)

*some venues come with these as standard, included in the price of hiring the venue, others you need to find seperately.

17. Things to make sure you have with you on the day:

Gaffa tape
lots of big, chunky pens
drawing pins
tape
A4 paper
mobile numbers for the bands
mobile numbers for the sound engineer and the venue
Spare CDs in case the DJ doesn't turn up.
Working, accurate watch
torch
earplugs - don't want to lose your hearing! (optional)
Ice creams for everyone. It's hot work setting up. It'll be appreciated ;)

18. Things to do on the day:

pray it all goes well!
stage management - stick to the timetable as closely as possible.
Try and get as many bands sound checked as possible. Happy bands an all that!**




** start with the headliner and work your way down the lineup if possible, it makes unloading the equipment between bands much easier. If the headliner is very late try to get some of the other bands soundchecked in the mean time, but make sure you get the headlinerset up and soundchecked as soon as they turn up!


I'm pretty sure there are things I've forgotten in those lists, so I'll expand them when I remember...

Re: will they never end?!

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

float for the door & cloakroom if the venue doesn't provide them.

guest lists! If the bands have guest list places make sure they provide you with the names in advance and make double sure you have them with you on the day!

Re: will they never end?!

[the_axel]

Specify the number of guest list spots in the contract.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Right... Whitby looms, so how about we revisit this when we get back (last comment was a day or so back, not expecting any more now...) and reformat it into a FAQ (and repost on LJ for second iteration comments?). Sound like a plan?

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

sounds like a plan.

I'll copy it all to the laptop as it's coming with me to whitby and it'll give me somehting to do in the quiet times behind the gothstuff stall (though here's praying for no quiet times ;)

come see us. We have the baby monster t-shirts for sale ;)
that and I'll try and do you that CD with new OVNI stuff on that I've been promising you for the last year!