Gigging thing - opinions, please!

[mrph]

(With apologies to diffrentcolours for poaching the title...)

There's been a fair bit of debate about gigs and promoters elsewhere on LJ today - mostly about a specific incident, but with some discussion of what should be expected/provided, good practice and all that sort of thing.

And thinking about it, there are a few musical and promotery types reading this journal. So...

What advice should be in a FAQ/guide for first time gig promoters?

Or, from the other point of view, for new bands who are about to start playing gigs?
Edit: actually, there seems to be a very decent take on the band's checklist here. Which the gigging thing lyrics indirectly reminded me of... :)

Comments

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

1. If in doubt, make a contract. However basic.

2. Double check, triple check and quadruple check that the venue has sorted out everything they promised well before the day.

3. If possible sort out the sound equipment yourself, or get a reliable sound person in. It looks dead unprofessional if everything goes tits up (been there, done that... not our fault!)

4. Always ensure you have enough money to pay the bands what you promised them. Take it out of your own bank and pay them, then you take the ticket money.door money etc and put it back into your account.

5. Always provide a proper detailed description of what the venue is like in terms of size to avoid dissapointment. Especially noteworthy if you're like us and it's in a small pub with a small stage area about 6 inches higher than the room.

6. Flyer lots.

7. If the bands want drinks or nibbles... try and provide them. It makes them happier and less argumentative :)

8. Buy them a round even if they didn't ask. Makes them even happier. Try not to get them drunk before hand though, you'll get a better show out of a sober band ;)

9. Don't forget to flyer everywhere to death

10. Chat to them, get to know them and be friendly. A miserable promoter isn't someone who bands are going to remember fondly.

Oh and most of all... have fun!

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

Have webspace available if you want to publish the lists anywhere too.

Would be interesting to come up with two decent lists of pointers (for bands and promoters as mentioned) and provide things like sample/template contracts and lists of respectable sound/lighting engineers/venues and such like too.

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

Don't let someone else sort out the venue when you're talking to the band, because you lose face when you have to turn round and say that you actually have nowhere them to play because your incompetent colleague didn't book it in time. (not that this is a sore point right now or anything)

[aoakley.livejournal.com]

Ensure that someone whose opinion you trust (ideally yourself) visits the venue in person before accepting a gig there.

Never expect any venue which has the word "bar" or "inn" in its name to be able to provide you with any kit whatsoever, even if they promise to.

If you expect bands on the same bill to share some of their kit with supporting bands, ensure that this is agreed in writing.

Always be on the look-out for potential roadies amongst the fanbase. Good roadies are those who can drive, don't mind providing their own transport, don't mind lugging heavy stuff around, don't mind arriving early and leaving late, don't get incapably drunk, don't annoy venue staff, have a mobile phone which they actually answer, can follow instructions and a map. All other considerations such as hygiene, annoying personality traits and dress sense are very much secondary in a roadie. They can be easily bought with guestlist status. If the venue will not give you guestlist places then sometimes it is actually worth paying for your best roadies' tickets just to get them to help out. Some fan-roadies will even happily shell out petrol costs well in excess of the value of the ticket simply to attend a gig to which they have "free" entry, such is the value of the hardcore fan-roadie. NEVER get snotty about the line between punter and crew, because unless you have your own personal bodyguard, there isn't one.

Unless you are bringing your own sound engineer with your own mixing desk, THE HOUSE SOUND ENGINEER IS GOD. Treat him/her as such.

Your merchandise stall bag should contain:

CDs in padded box

T-shirts in sorted into seperate bags by design and size, with the design and size clearly labelled on the bag in large high-contrast lettering (your stallholder will be working IN THE DARK)

Lockable cash box

Price list

Two large black felt-tip markers

A dozen or more sheets of plain paper, A4 or larger

Several cheap ballpens

Sellotape, gaffa tape, blu-tack, drawing pins AND bulldog clips(you never know which of these the venue will allow you to use)

Desk lamp (ideally a clip-on one) with long mains lead or extension mains lead

Cheapo battery powered lamp (for when there really is no power, or when hunting for T-shirts under a desk) with spare fresh batteries

Float of 20 quid made up of two fivers and lots of coins

Pleasant honest stallholder who can do basic arithmetic, write down sales and remember to lock the cash box. Two if they want to take turns dancing.

[naamah-dust.livejournal.com]

From all my live gigging experiences the only gripes that I can still remember with a frown are :

- not enough DI boxes despite always submitting a tech spec in advance

- not enough available inputs into the mixing desk despite always submitting a tech spec in advance

- turning up (always) on time for soundcheck but no sign of the engineer / PA and therefore getting an inadequate soundcheck due to their tardiness.


On a positive note the good memories are :

- being given agreed riders, always helps when you are sitting around for hours at soundchecks etc. Its a long day...

- being paid as agreed without having to argue, haggle or chase

- the promoters themselves actually spending time with us having a beer (just as Morph says), it really does make the hours sat around go by a lot more pleasantly when there is someone to have a beer with, and not just turn up as the doors open....

[markeris.livejournal.com]

Stuff that seems common sense but clearly isn`t :-

1) Do not assume that whatever kit is in the venue will match whatever kit the bands need. When it doesn`t it will be YOUR fault. You can swap lists of tech kit with both parties without understanding what it means - you understand what the words OK and NOT OK mean, yes?

2)Do your maths. If your break even point is above 50% capacity, particularly if you are just starting, you have no one to blame but yourself later. In particular do not be trying to weedle out of paying bands due to making a loss in what to the naked eye is a fairly rammed venue.

3)And then assume less than 50% of people will turn up anyway. And that you have enough cash on you to cover everything. If you are caught with your pants down over this, you WILL get yourself pinned into a corner sooner or later if the first expense you cut is the band fee. One assumes it is much easier to pop down the bank and back into the venue to pay them the next morning than it is for you to get mnoney to the bands afterwards for a start.

4) A post on upg and netgoth IS NOT A PUBLICITY CAMPAIGN.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That idea definitely appeals...

I think this should be done.

Addendum

[mrph.livejournal.com]

6. ...and for more than a week beforehand. Unless you've got a regular slot, at least four weeks is a good span of time to advertise...

7. Food and drink can always be specified in the contract, too. That way you don't get caught offguard when your band turn out to be veggies (or vegan) and can't eat your lovingly prepared ham sandwiches. :)

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Of course not. Ouch. :(

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Merchandise stall space is another of those things that should be in the contract (or at least discussed beforehand). If you're going to be sharing a single 3x3 table with the other bands, a little advance warning is nice.

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

Inspired by yesterday's conversations we're in the process of sorting out some of these things for Church of Madness anyway, so I think it'd be a good idea.

A couple of my own...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

1. Contact details. As well as postal/email/whatever addresses, there should be an exchange of mobile numbers before the day itself. So that when the promoter is late due to traffic, or the band can't find the venue, something can be sorted out.
2. Directions. Make sure the band have a map showing the way to the venue. And if the sign outside doesn't match the name you've given them, or isn't terribly visible at all, make sure they know that.
3. ...and further to that, make sure that they know where to park and won't get clamped. If they need to get a pass from the venue and stick it in the car window, do make sure they know this too...

Re: A couple of my own...

[markeris.livejournal.com]

It`s like you`re psychic or something.

[diffrentcolours]

Cor, I used to be funny...

One thing that might be a good thing (especially in the light of recent events) is more communication between promoters of clubs and gigs to avoid clashes. It seems that the promotion "scene" has gotten even more insular these days.

I seem to remember at some point someone talking about setting up a mailing list for gig and club promoters to avoid such clashes, and to organise such things as band tours. Did that ever happen?

Addendum 2

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

6... don't just stick to your town either. Spread the advertising as far and wide as possible. Let the band have access to the flyer designs, or send them some printed ones; they have as much interest in the gig being successful as you do. Place the flyer on your website, place links to it on newsgroups, LJ and any other online resource you can find (though probably no more than twice on one site as it looks like spam after that)

Re: Addendum 2

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

This reminds me. Tips on designing decent, effective flyers could be useful too.

If it's electronic make it black and white, not shades of grey/colour. Otherwise it doesn't photocopy properly and just looks shit.

If you can afford it, spend a little extra on decent quality paper rather than using your work photocopier. Decent quality flyers make it look like you care more. Full colour really attracts attention (though can cost a lot)

Don't forget things like venue address, web address, ticket prices, opening/closing times and band lineup on the flyers. It's amazing what people forget to put on!

Make it seem like great value. If it's £3 entry on the door, make the flyer say "£3 entry on the door with this flyer". More people will keep the flyers and remember about the gig if there's a specific reason to keep the thing. Works even better if it's like us and you can't charge entry as we get to put the word "FREE!" on them :)

Don't clutter your flyers with big, complicated colour background images that can obscure the text. If you want a background make sure the text resides within a box that has a single colour background, or at least ensure that it's big enough and bold enough to be obviously different. (include some examples of good and bad flyer designs on the site? - not real flyers though as this may upset the people that spent time designing them)

Re: A couple of my own...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

I knew you were going to say that... :)

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

there is a small mailing list for UK DJs, but there's not a lot of action on it at the moment. No real organisation between clubs either.

It'd be nice if clubs within easy travel distance could help flyer each other and maybe work together on larger gigs that one club alone couldn't afford.

Re: A couple of my own...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

..of course, if I'd actually had my brain plugged in last night, I'd have started this conversation on The Hive, wouldn't I? Bah.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

It'd be nice if clubs within easy travel distance could help flyer each other.

I always thought that Gert Black Combine Harvester and taoist_goth's Dark Entries worked really well for this. One of those ideas that never really escaped the South, though.

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

While the idea was great, it didn't last too long unfortunately. The other side of the coin was that despite it all we never actually saw anyone new from the adverts in Dark Entries :(

My comment was more of an idealistic one as I know full well that people won't/don't travel from oxford to Church of Madness and only a few people from Reading ever manage to make it to Intrusion.

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

11. From a promoter's stand point don't be afraid to turn around half way through discussions with a band and call it off if you don't think it's going to work. But make sure you've a decent reason (i.e. unattainable tech specs), not just that you don't feel like it.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

I think GBCH had a fairly long run, but then it was covering a small/busy area, iirc - Bath, Bristol and Gloucester(?), all of which had overlap in attendee goths.

I always figured that the West Midlands would suit something like that - a couple of Brum nights, a couple of Cov nights, Wolverhampton and a hop over the border for Leicester. They're all reasonably close...

Just thinking...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Maybe a "so, you want to start a new goth night?" FAQ would also be a worthy addition?

Re: Just thinking...

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

Definately. A few of the gig promoter ones are valid for starting a club too, plus there are some other useful things to check out.

Potentially a seperate FAQ for flyers and flyering hints and tips would be useful as these are generic enough to be useful to bands, gig and club promoters.