Godless and flammable?

[mrph]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Glasgow's Catholics want to set fire to LGBT folk. That's a little bit 15th century, after all.

On the other hand, handing out safety information that might stop those people catching fire from other causes... that seems to be a little more controversial, doesn't it?

The BBC states that some firefighters viewed it as something that would "contradict their moral beliefs", presumably because it meant visiting Pride to hand out the leaflets. Archbishop Mario Conti seems to agree with them, saying that "The duty to obey one's conscience is a higher duty than that of obeying orders".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5301334.stm

Hmm. Does anyone local have a little more information on this tale?

Comments

[blu-matt.livejournal.com]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-2375.html

I do agree with the Archbishop though: the duty of conscience to save people's lives being higher than obeying an imaginary divinity's order to hate gays.

Oh, wasn't that what he meant?

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Now, my theology's not that hot, but the bit that I don't get is vaguely along the following lines:

It's an evangelical religion. Spread the good word and all that. The duty of conscience, from that perspective, is still to save people's lives. Because surely it's too late to repent your wicked ways and find Jesus when you're already dead...?

Or is teaching the deviants fire safety somehow endorsing their filthy godless lifestyle?

I've actually got a little more time - if only a little - for the firefighters who thought they'd be embarrassed/mocked/leched at/whatever for turning up at Pride in uniform. I can at least understand that point of view.

[blu-matt.livejournal.com]

Catholicism isn't anywhere near as evangelical as, say, Southern Baptism, but it's incredibly judgemental, supported by a wonderfully powerful guilt system that well goes beyond most mainstream christian sects, and with a nice touch in priest magic at the eucharist just to confuse the slackers.

There's also a hefty dose of the "let 'em burn and let god sort them out" attitude too, if they can't easily get their way. Catholicism tends to appear to be relatively "easy going" with non-Catholics in the main, unless it's one of the fundamental core sex/dogma things (marriage/virginity/reproduction/parthenogenesis).

All of this lends a lot of fuel to intolerance when it comes to the idea of tolerating non-heterosexuals.

The fire puns were unintentional.

[zarbi.livejournal.com]

I can definitely vouch for the guilt system, being an ex-Catholic myself. However, I think that one needs to separate Catholicism with Catholics in general. Most that I knew ignored much of the stuff coming from Rome (even parish Priests were far more reasonable). I knew of no-one who would be as crazy as those firemen - they are fundamentalists, and (I hope) far from typical. Not that I want to defend the religion....

[blu-matt.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with this. Most Catholics don't subscribe to the whole kit and caboodle of Roman dogma¹ and you'll still get the full spectrum of fundamentalist to liberal adherents² although I would say, with my reading into Catholic (and other) behavioural attitudes, that the vast majority have problems dealing with with sex-related issues, especially homosexuality.

1. Saying that, most believers, of any religion, don't subscribe to every tenet that the name of their chosen sect implies. It's amazing how their interpretation of the dogma reflects their own personal opinions...
2. Obviously, the bell curve is slanted toward the fundamentalist end - it is religion we're talking about after all.

[mister-jack.livejournal.com]

See, I think the bell curve is quite clearly slanted towards the "casual" adherance end of every religion. Remember the overwhelming majority in this country describe themselves as Christian.

[blu-matt.livejournal.com]

I would agree with this assessment, if the issue were for christians in general. My observation was for Catholics in particular, who are, in general, more fundamental in their attitudes than, for example, the average Briton. Admittedly, my last comment was quite trite and added nothing.

[markeris.livejournal.com]

"they'd be embarrassed/mocked/leched at/whatever for turning up at Pride in uniform. "

I`d have thought they were more likely to be voted "best in show".

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

You know, this is a thing I find fascinating, this "I refuse to live up to the responsibilities of my professional ethic because of my personal conscience."

The big one over here in the States was the pharmacist debacle - refusing to provide emergency contraception because it "contradicted their moral beliefs" - and, in some particularly stunning cases, refused to fulfill prescriptions for the pre-natal vitamins to ensure a healthy birth because the 'scrips were issued from a clinic that also counseled abortion. There's a moral quandary, eh? And we had all this hooplah about how they shouldn't be required to contradict their moral code.

There's an easy solution here, especially for the folks over here who say "women who don't want to be pregnant shouldn't have sex." so clearly. The duties of your job are pretty damn up-front, and unlike sex, the job can't be forced on you. If your conscience prevents you from conforming to the ethics required of the profession, if you can't in good conscience save the lives of "those people"... quit. Go find another job. You want to stand up for your convictions? Stand up for your convictions, and deal with the consequences. Show me you meant it. Don't just sit down on the job and excuse yourself. That's the laziest conscience I've ever seen.

This rant brought to you by hatred, rage, and the letter N.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

It's rather disappointing. Glasgow was so lovely and welcoming at BiCon.

[dr-wez.livejournal.com]

Perhaps their thinking was along the lines of:

"Gay people are Godless animals. Animals can't use fire [or read]. Ergo, we should save the environment by not giving flyers out to them."

It just goes to show that we haven't really evolved all that much from our mud-dwelling ameoba ancestry after all.

[queex.livejournal.com]

"The duty to obey one's conscience is a higher duty than that of obeying orders."

That's as may be. But if your conscience prevents you from doing your actual job, RESIGN.

[zarbi.livejournal.com]

Oh well said! That is exactly the point, surely.

[mister-jack.livejournal.com]

"The duty to obey one's conscience" in this case being a polite euthamism for being a odius little bigot.

[blu-matt.livejournal.com]

Indeed.