Union Jack

[mrph]

Go back a couple of posts and you'll find my link to the preacher's Civil Religion piece. Churches, flags, that sort of thing.

Given today's events, it's quite appropriate. There are a few Union Jacks springing up on livejournal today, for obvious reasons, and I'm a little... uneasy... to see them there.

I'm not sure I'd class myself as a patriot. I disagree with the government over an awful lot of things.

I don't think there's any particular virtue that makes the UK 'the best' - and I'm reassured by that, as I hope the things I do like in that regard are things a lot of other countries share (or aim for).

I quite like it here, though. I like the geography, I like the people and the lifestyles, I like to think that on the whole it's a good place and a lot of people try to keep it that way.

The flag, however... that's slightly more complex. It has a place, on formal occasions. Sporting events. Ships. The military. Anywhere you're likely to see royalty (or their property). But it seems to me that we've never really gone in for more everyday flag-waving - certainly not in the same way as some other countries - and I quite like it that way.

The new War of the Worlds film springs to mind, just as a comparison. Tom Cruise runs out of his house to see what's happening on the street. Seen in the background, almost every house on that street seems to have an American flag - a dozen different copies of the stars and stripes, all in a row. Viewed from the UK perspective, that's a very alien thing. Maybe Hollywood is playing it up for effect, maybe not - but either way, you just wouldn't do that with the Union Jack.

[Every year I go to the M'era Luna fest in Germany. Every year there are half a dozen Union Jack flags flying over the campsite. None of them will be on a British tent. Guaranteed. The German campers may use them to identify their tents, but the UK visitors wouldn't. Just doesn't seem right to go hoisting the UK flag in someone else's country and doesn't seem appropriate to use it like that anyway, in an odd sort of way]

It exists. That's enough. It doesn't need copies in every town, on every street, to constantly remind us that it exists. That would just be missing the point, somehow.

And if today changes that, I'm going to be deeply pissed off.

Comments

[markeris.livejournal.com]

"I'm not sure I'd class myself as a patriot. I disagree with the government over an awful lot of things."

A cultural entrenchment of that very sentence is what makes me proud to be British. There are incidents. There are embarassements. There is profound shame when the lowest denominator waves the flag around and wipes the cock of Britain on the curtain of the rest of the world when it`s finished. But I still regard stoicism and debate as being as British as the Union Jack. Today has proved this to me, from the head honcho down. Despite your worst fears.

[rag-man.livejournal.com]

I heartely agree! The fact that we can have these discussions and this level of disdain for our national flag & government is part of being British, and that in itself is something to be proud of. I don't believe that we should leave the flag to the nationalists just in case we get tarred wiht the same brush, or in case people enjoy waving it for the wrong reasons!

In a multicultural nation, we should celebrate our heritage (as it happens, for me that means being Italian!) just as we encourage the other cultural denominations to; be that what it may.

Freedom can't be restricted to liberalism.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say it's disdain for the flag. It's just... I don't know, it feels like it'd be devaluing the currency somehow if we were to start plastering it everywhere. Which isn't a criticism of anywhere else, it's just something that doesn't feel right (to me) for this flag.

[rag-man.livejournal.com]

I kow where you're coming from and ten years ago, I'd have agreed with you without question, but I get so sick and tired of being told by PC-mongers that it's inappropriate for the stiff-upper-lip and union jack to be waved in times of national need. Essentialy, this is just handing the flag & some of Britians quirk to the extreme right.

[diffrentcolours]

I was in a conversation on IRC earlier about T-shirt designs referencing the bombings today, and was unsettled in the same way that you seem to be by people using the Union Jack in proposed designs.

Personally, I quite like my "Terrorists - Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" idea. That's about as patriotic as I care to get.

[ankaret.livejournal.com]

I don't see anything wrong with displaying a flag (though I'd probably assume any building flying one was either an Army recruiting station or a Scout hut) but I wouldn't wear one on a T-shirt - distorting the Union Jack over my bosom would seem (a) a bit disrespectful, and (b) liable to make people think I'd never quite got over Britpop.

[messyscribbles.livejournal.com]

It's very rare for me to read a post and be in complete agreement with it; this is one of those occasions.

: )

[jruske.livejournal.com]

Seen in the background, almost every house on that street seems to have an American flag

At the height of the flag waving mania a few years ago I saw some of that. Of course the same people don't know the words to the nation's anthems and are conscientious objecters to reciting the Pledge of Allegiance (it says God in it after all)...

But in general that's a pretty rare thing. You're more likely to see ribbons on cars - it seems all causes have a coloured ribbon magnet these days, and the flags have luckily been put away before being allowed to completely descend into rags because they were not taken care of properly.

[lougarry.livejournal.com]

Um, many houses have flags outside their houses whatever the time of year, and this was _before_ 9/11. There are more flags now, but there were definitely flags before the terrorists started their campaign of hate . I remember this from my trips over to the states, and it wasn't limited to any one state.

I dont think waving a flag about makes you more patriotic. I see the flags that have been appearing as a signal to the people who have done this that we will not be beaten - either to reassure themselves or to other people.
Nazi germany couldn't beat us, and neither will a few religious fanatics opposed to freedom of speech, movement etc.

If people want to wave flags I dont see the problem. We are brittish - regardless of our religions and we should be proud of that. Perhpas that is somethign that the terrorists need to see?
That none of us will be cowed by their cowardly tactics.

[girfan.livejournal.com]

We had a flag displayed fairly often when I was young (living in the US) but that was mainly due to my father being a veteran of WWII. It went up for the obvious holidays, but he sometimes put it up every day if he was thinking a lot about the war and friends and family lost during it. I never really asked him about it and he's been dead almost 10 years, so it's too late now.

It does shock me to go back to the US and see so many flags displayed. A lot of people started doing so after 9-11 and just stayed in the habit.

I would proudly display a Union Jack if it was an appropriate time. I am proud to live here and look forward to the day I can become a citizen.

[paulw.livejournal.com]

Its the old British mentality coming out again of not taking pride in anything. Everyone loves a good loser, winning isn't everything etc etc. No wonder we always come second, we've lost our competitive edge.

I'm British, I'm proud of it and I will wave the flag whenever I like. I refuse to hand our flag over to the racists who hide behind it. I have the flag on my desk at work and I have the flag in my sigs online. If I could afford a decent flagpole at home, I'd get one.

We get told to respect other people cultures, perhaps its time to start respecting our own as well. Its not offensive to anyone to display a flag especially in our own country. Perhaps we should start being a little more passionate about our country instead of our current culture of apathy.

Sorry if this is a little abrupt but its something I feel equally strongly about.

[lougarry.livejournal.com]

hear hear :)

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Respecting the culture, sure. Respecting the flag? Yes. But for me, that's a view that says it's something quite formal. As noted, it just doesn't feel like we need multiple copies on display.

It's not about whether or not it's offensive, it's not about lack of passion. It's about what the flag means and just how/when it should be displayed. It's a very personal view and I don't claim to be right - it's just how it feels to me, which is probably rooted in my family (lots of navy / merchant navy folks), among other things.

[aardvarkoffnord.livejournal.com]

Pet peeve...

They are only Union Jacks if you fly them from a jack staff. Otherwise, they are Union flags.

[zarbi.livejournal.com]

A superb post. I agree completely.