"what a waste of gunpowder and sky"

[mrph]

Transatlantic differences, part vii.

The United States use fireworks to celebrate their independence day, July 4th.

And what do we do? We pick a cold winter night, November 5th, and we use them to celebrate a man who tried to blow up our government.

Hmmm. Works for me...

Comments

[toripink.livejournal.com]

yeh.

now get your bitch ass in the kitchen and make me some mushy peas and pie covered in gravy...

yum yum yum

[ragnvaeig.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think it's more fun if you include the burning-in-effigy bit. So I sent my 10-year-old brother a Guy Fawkes card--now he'll have more excuses to play with fire. I'm such a good big sister.

[sheepthief.livejournal.com]

I think the difference is that they celebrate success, while we celebrate failure.

[aoakley.livejournal.com]

I thought it was about burning religious extremists?

Ridding the country of religious extremists is a worthy cause. The method isn't entirely appropriate today, but I support the sentiment.

5th Nov should be a religious holiday for atheists, agnostics and humanists.

[blaadyblah.livejournal.com]

5th Nov should be a religious holiday for atheists, agnostics and humanists.

Why? Do you believe they have a monopoly on distaste for religious fanatacism?

[jorune.livejournal.com]

Nov 5th is a celebration of freedom, a reminder of how liberties were nearly lost and a message that we should not tolerate those external parties who threaten the nation and its people.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Yes. But it's also a reminder that the people running the country risk violent dissent if they abuse their powers. James was a new monarch, an outsider and a rather unpleasant piece of work, after all...

You could certainly argue that his background made him as much an 'external party' as the plotters themselves - a Scotsman installed as king in the absence of an English heir...?

[jorune.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly certain that your comment has been argued in some historical journal. I think that any protestant monarch would have faced the same challenge as did James I.

James came from a nation that was split between Protestant zealots led by the Earl of Bothwell and northern moderates led by the Earl of Huntly. There were still Catholics in the nobility of Scotland. James successfully resolved a rebellion by Bothwell and tamed the Northern Earls. He came to the English throne 'as an Experienced King needing no lessons'.

He came to the throne with a catholic wife and an intention to practice reform. He loved debating Theology and later in his reign went into print against Catholic ideologues with the tract Works in 1616. I don't believe he intended to abuse his powers, forcefully coerce people into line certainly; But that was par for the course in world.

England was still in the grip of fear, the God Queen Elizabeth ensured that Anglicanism was synonymous with England. In Europe the Protestant cause had been forced to accept a limited peace with the Edict of Nantes (1598) in the French Wars of Religion. The Catholic Hapsburg Empire which had fought England with the Armada had descended into internal conflict with the inquistion taking an ever greater role. This decline became so marked that it would take until the 20th Century before Spain would recover. So the English people saw Catholics as a real and present danger, a threat to Liberty.

He was an external party, but being a protestant he was able to win over the loyalty of most of the country. The gunpowder plot was the 9/11 of its time. 'Clear proof' that England needed protection and that the security service of Elizabeth's time needed funding and support. As to the history of Bonfire Night itself I'm not sure when and how the original concept has formed and changed.

[giggly-teapot.livejournal.com]

celebrate the festival of light instead, much better idea bringing light to the darkest night. The Hindu faith use the lunar calendar to workout which night will be the darkest, i.e. the nearest night to the shortest day without any moonlight, and let off fireworks to bring back the light. Nice idea, and it means that I can still have my fireworks.