Gigging thing - opinions, please!

[mrph]

(With apologies to diffrentcolours for poaching the title...)

There's been a fair bit of debate about gigs and promoters elsewhere on LJ today - mostly about a specific incident, but with some discussion of what should be expected/provided, good practice and all that sort of thing.

And thinking about it, there are a few musical and promotery types reading this journal. So...

What advice should be in a FAQ/guide for first time gig promoters?

Or, from the other point of view, for new bands who are about to start playing gigs?
Edit: actually, there seems to be a very decent take on the band's checklist here. Which the gigging thing lyrics indirectly reminded me of... :)

Comments

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

1. If in doubt, make a contract. However basic.

2. Double check, triple check and quadruple check that the venue has sorted out everything they promised well before the day.

3. If possible sort out the sound equipment yourself, or get a reliable sound person in. It looks dead unprofessional if everything goes tits up (been there, done that... not our fault!)

4. Always ensure you have enough money to pay the bands what you promised them. Take it out of your own bank and pay them, then you take the ticket money.door money etc and put it back into your account.

5. Always provide a proper detailed description of what the venue is like in terms of size to avoid dissapointment. Especially noteworthy if you're like us and it's in a small pub with a small stage area about 6 inches higher than the room.

6. Flyer lots.

7. If the bands want drinks or nibbles... try and provide them. It makes them happier and less argumentative :)

8. Buy them a round even if they didn't ask. Makes them even happier. Try not to get them drunk before hand though, you'll get a better show out of a sober band ;)

9. Don't forget to flyer everywhere to death

10. Chat to them, get to know them and be friendly. A miserable promoter isn't someone who bands are going to remember fondly.

Oh and most of all... have fun!

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

Have webspace available if you want to publish the lists anywhere too.

Would be interesting to come up with two decent lists of pointers (for bands and promoters as mentioned) and provide things like sample/template contracts and lists of respectable sound/lighting engineers/venues and such like too.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That idea definitely appeals...

I think this should be done.

Just thinking...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Maybe a "so, you want to start a new goth night?" FAQ would also be a worthy addition?

Addendum

[mrph.livejournal.com]

6. ...and for more than a week beforehand. Unless you've got a regular slot, at least four weeks is a good span of time to advertise...

7. Food and drink can always be specified in the contract, too. That way you don't get caught offguard when your band turn out to be veggies (or vegan) and can't eat your lovingly prepared ham sandwiches. :)

Addendum 2

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

6... don't just stick to your town either. Spread the advertising as far and wide as possible. Let the band have access to the flyer designs, or send them some printed ones; they have as much interest in the gig being successful as you do. Place the flyer on your website, place links to it on newsgroups, LJ and any other online resource you can find (though probably no more than twice on one site as it looks like spam after that)

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

11. From a promoter's stand point don't be afraid to turn around half way through discussions with a band and call it off if you don't think it's going to work. But make sure you've a decent reason (i.e. unattainable tech specs), not just that you don't feel like it.

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

12. If you're worried about making all the money back, find yourself a sponsor who can add some extra cash into the day. Your best bets are for people like Grave News, Music Non Stop or Resurrection. Offer something like advertising on your promotion campaign and sole trader rights (of a certain type... in the examples offered the sole CD stall other than band merchandise).

13. Stalls. If you're doing an all day event add some stalls selling CDs, clothes... that sort of thing. It gives people something to do between bands, gives you some extra income to pay for the event and makes a large venue seem fuller in terms of attendance. People judge an event by how packed it looks as much as the bands playing. If it looks packed, it must be popular and people will come back next time and bring friends along :)

14. Don't throw a strop. Remain calm at all times and project a professional image, even if you're running around like a headless chicken. Makes the bands panic less. If something is going seriously wrong on the day, talk to the bands, the venue and everyone else involved. There's probably some way to come to a solution without arguments.

On #14...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Too true. And if something goes seriously wrong, try to deal with it quietly before going loud and public about it.

Unless there's been a real breakdown (the Dublin goth fest springs to mind as one of the few examples. Or the Leipzig where the promoter fled with the funds...), it should all get resolved behind the scenes.

will they never end?!

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

16. Things to make sure you have organised :

bands!
contract with venue
contracts with the bands
Venue
Lighting & lighitng engineer * (if the venue is big enough)
Sound equipment & engineer *
Tickets *
Flyers
Local magazine adverts (national magazine adverts if possible - Terrorizer, Kerrang, Meltdown etc.)
Riders (food and drink for the bands)
Door staff - check if you need to supply these
Cloakroom staff - check if you need to supply these
Tables and chairs - Bands will want a merchandise stall or three, some venues may not supply decent sized tables.
Suitable DJs for between the bands.
Organise a proper timetable for who goes on when and try to stick as closely to it as possible (this includes sound checking)

*some venues come with these as standard, included in the price of hiring the venue, others you need to find seperately.

17. Things to make sure you have with you on the day:

Gaffa tape
lots of big, chunky pens
drawing pins
tape
A4 paper
mobile numbers for the bands
mobile numbers for the sound engineer and the venue
Spare CDs in case the DJ doesn't turn up.
Working, accurate watch
torch
earplugs - don't want to lose your hearing! (optional)
Ice creams for everyone. It's hot work setting up. It'll be appreciated ;)

18. Things to do on the day:

pray it all goes well!
stage management - stick to the timetable as closely as possible.
Try and get as many bands sound checked as possible. Happy bands an all that!**




** start with the headliner and work your way down the lineup if possible, it makes unloading the equipment between bands much easier. If the headliner is very late try to get some of the other bands soundchecked in the mean time, but make sure you get the headlinerset up and soundchecked as soon as they turn up!


I'm pretty sure there are things I've forgotten in those lists, so I'll expand them when I remember...

Re: will they never end?!

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

float for the door & cloakroom if the venue doesn't provide them.

guest lists! If the bands have guest list places make sure they provide you with the names in advance and make double sure you have them with you on the day!

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Right... Whitby looms, so how about we revisit this when we get back (last comment was a day or so back, not expecting any more now...) and reformat it into a FAQ (and repost on LJ for second iteration comments?). Sound like a plan?

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

sounds like a plan.

I'll copy it all to the laptop as it's coming with me to whitby and it'll give me somehting to do in the quiet times behind the gothstuff stall (though here's praying for no quiet times ;)

come see us. We have the baby monster t-shirts for sale ;)
that and I'll try and do you that CD with new OVNI stuff on that I've been promising you for the last year!

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

Don't let someone else sort out the venue when you're talking to the band, because you lose face when you have to turn round and say that you actually have nowhere them to play because your incompetent colleague didn't book it in time. (not that this is a sore point right now or anything)

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Of course not. Ouch. :(

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

ahh yes.

15. Try and keep the number of organisers of an event to a minimum and limit it to those you'd trust to carry out things promptly and on time without too much pestering. If you do need lots of people involved, make sure you have regular contact with them and have one person managing the whole thing very closely.

[aoakley.livejournal.com]

Ensure that someone whose opinion you trust (ideally yourself) visits the venue in person before accepting a gig there.

Never expect any venue which has the word "bar" or "inn" in its name to be able to provide you with any kit whatsoever, even if they promise to.

If you expect bands on the same bill to share some of their kit with supporting bands, ensure that this is agreed in writing.

Always be on the look-out for potential roadies amongst the fanbase. Good roadies are those who can drive, don't mind providing their own transport, don't mind lugging heavy stuff around, don't mind arriving early and leaving late, don't get incapably drunk, don't annoy venue staff, have a mobile phone which they actually answer, can follow instructions and a map. All other considerations such as hygiene, annoying personality traits and dress sense are very much secondary in a roadie. They can be easily bought with guestlist status. If the venue will not give you guestlist places then sometimes it is actually worth paying for your best roadies' tickets just to get them to help out. Some fan-roadies will even happily shell out petrol costs well in excess of the value of the ticket simply to attend a gig to which they have "free" entry, such is the value of the hardcore fan-roadie. NEVER get snotty about the line between punter and crew, because unless you have your own personal bodyguard, there isn't one.

Unless you are bringing your own sound engineer with your own mixing desk, THE HOUSE SOUND ENGINEER IS GOD. Treat him/her as such.

Your merchandise stall bag should contain:

CDs in padded box

T-shirts in sorted into seperate bags by design and size, with the design and size clearly labelled on the bag in large high-contrast lettering (your stallholder will be working IN THE DARK)

Lockable cash box

Price list

Two large black felt-tip markers

A dozen or more sheets of plain paper, A4 or larger

Several cheap ballpens

Sellotape, gaffa tape, blu-tack, drawing pins AND bulldog clips(you never know which of these the venue will allow you to use)

Desk lamp (ideally a clip-on one) with long mains lead or extension mains lead

Cheapo battery powered lamp (for when there really is no power, or when hunting for T-shirts under a desk) with spare fresh batteries

Float of 20 quid made up of two fivers and lots of coins

Pleasant honest stallholder who can do basic arithmetic, write down sales and remember to lock the cash box. Two if they want to take turns dancing.

[mrph.livejournal.com]

Merchandise stall space is another of those things that should be in the contract (or at least discussed beforehand). If you're going to be sharing a single 3x3 table with the other bands, a little advance warning is nice.

[naamah-dust.livejournal.com]

From all my live gigging experiences the only gripes that I can still remember with a frown are :

- not enough DI boxes despite always submitting a tech spec in advance

- not enough available inputs into the mixing desk despite always submitting a tech spec in advance

- turning up (always) on time for soundcheck but no sign of the engineer / PA and therefore getting an inadequate soundcheck due to their tardiness.


On a positive note the good memories are :

- being given agreed riders, always helps when you are sitting around for hours at soundchecks etc. Its a long day...

- being paid as agreed without having to argue, haggle or chase

- the promoters themselves actually spending time with us having a beer (just as Morph says), it really does make the hours sat around go by a lot more pleasantly when there is someone to have a beer with, and not just turn up as the doors open....

[markeris.livejournal.com]

Stuff that seems common sense but clearly isn`t :-

1) Do not assume that whatever kit is in the venue will match whatever kit the bands need. When it doesn`t it will be YOUR fault. You can swap lists of tech kit with both parties without understanding what it means - you understand what the words OK and NOT OK mean, yes?

2)Do your maths. If your break even point is above 50% capacity, particularly if you are just starting, you have no one to blame but yourself later. In particular do not be trying to weedle out of paying bands due to making a loss in what to the naked eye is a fairly rammed venue.

3)And then assume less than 50% of people will turn up anyway. And that you have enough cash on you to cover everything. If you are caught with your pants down over this, you WILL get yourself pinned into a corner sooner or later if the first expense you cut is the band fee. One assumes it is much easier to pop down the bank and back into the venue to pay them the next morning than it is for you to get mnoney to the bands afterwards for a start.

4) A post on upg and netgoth IS NOT A PUBLICITY CAMPAIGN.

A couple of my own...

[mrph.livejournal.com]

1. Contact details. As well as postal/email/whatever addresses, there should be an exchange of mobile numbers before the day itself. So that when the promoter is late due to traffic, or the band can't find the venue, something can be sorted out.
2. Directions. Make sure the band have a map showing the way to the venue. And if the sign outside doesn't match the name you've given them, or isn't terribly visible at all, make sure they know that.
3. ...and further to that, make sure that they know where to park and won't get clamped. If they need to get a pass from the venue and stick it in the car window, do make sure they know this too...

Re: A couple of my own...

[markeris.livejournal.com]

It`s like you`re psychic or something.

[diffrentcolours]

Cor, I used to be funny...

One thing that might be a good thing (especially in the light of recent events) is more communication between promoters of clubs and gigs to avoid clashes. It seems that the promotion "scene" has gotten even more insular these days.

I seem to remember at some point someone talking about setting up a mailing list for gig and club promoters to avoid such clashes, and to organise such things as band tours. Did that ever happen?

[sogoth.livejournal.com]

there is a small mailing list for UK DJs, but there's not a lot of action on it at the moment. No real organisation between clubs either.

It'd be nice if clubs within easy travel distance could help flyer each other and maybe work together on larger gigs that one club alone couldn't afford.

[erming.livejournal.com]

I'd say as it is one of my pet annoyances is to say where in the country the gig is in your adverts.

As an example not everyone knows where the Joiners is or where in the country you are by the name of your club night.