mrph | (no subject)

It seems to be the season for rants about goth. Specifically, for rants about why live goth music doesn't seem to get much of an audience these days. Never one to be left out, here's my rant on the subject. It's worth what you paid for it :)

I think there are at least two related but distinct factors here.

Firstly, the UK bands who are gigging on the "goth" (and related bleep/oddness) scene aren't (for the most part) the bands who are filling dancefloors in clubs. Now, the two things don't have to go together, but I don't think I've ever seen them quite this far apart before, and it certainly can't be helping. I'm sure one of the reasons that bands like Covenant, Assemblage 23 and APB do so well at attracting people to gigs is that their music is virtually everywhere in UK clubs, and lots of people dance to it.

Secondly, the "big name" bands - The Mission, Sisters of Mercy, Chameleons, Siouxsie/Creatures and so on - have cut most of their ties to the scene. They don't play the normal goth venues, they don't deal with the usual UK goth promoters, they don't have goth bands supporting them when they do tour. Which leaves a very wide gap between the tatty old goth gig circuit and the sort of gigs that most goth bands want to be playing - not at all easy to cross unless there's someone on the far side to lend a hand and throw you a metaphorical rope.

[AAE now seem to accept that goth support bands aren't automatically a bad thing, which is one small step in the right direction...]

Looking at some specifics - UK bands who have widespread goth club success and actually play at goth gigs/events. Dream Disciples. Killing Miranda. Mesh. VNV Nation. There are plenty more who get played now and then, or who have a reputation for great gigs - but I suspect those four are the only UK ones near the top of the club dancefloor favourites list.

So, what to do about this...

There seem to be three main tactics.

Firstly, bands can go and look for a different way to reach a wider audience. Escape from goth (at least for a show or ten), get a support slot for a metal/indie/whatever band and build a new fanbase there. Preferably without loing your goth fans in the process. Nice trick if you can do it - Killing Miranda seem to be managing, and Ghost of Lemora look to be doing something similar now, too.

Secondly, the promoters can go out of their way to bring in big name outside(ish) bands. The Damned, for example. Or Sigue Sigue Sputnik. Or Paradise Lost. Done often enough, that also helps to break down the barriers. If it doesn't completely misfire, anyway - the German scene does this extremely well, I think, with the likes of Killing Joke, The Fall and Marc Almond playing at various goth fests....

Thirdly, sod the UK and concentrate on hitting it big elsewhere. Somewhere with a healthier live scene that's not quite so isolated. Tricky, but it just might work.

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Firstly, bands can go and look for a different way to reach a wider audience. Escape from goth (at least for a show or ten), get a support slot for a metal/indie/whatever band and build a new fanbase there. Preferably without loing your goth fans in the process. Nice trick if you can do it - Killing Miranda seem to be managing, and Ghost of Lemora look to be doing something similar now, too.

Oh god, we're *looking*! There seems to be a dearth of promoters on either side of the scene that understand cross-scene potential. Killing Miranda have had problems with metal promoters due to them being seen as "goth" - it's weird, once you've played the goth scene you've got to work pretty bloody hard to get any kind of recognition outside of it. It's not impossible, but it's very very hard. Once you've been categorised, you're seemingly doomed to stay there.

Secondly, the promoters can go out of their way to bring in big name outside(ish) bands. The Damned, for example. Or Sigue Sigue Sputnik. Or Paradise Lost. Done often enough, that also helps to break down the barriers. If it doesn't completely misfire, anyway - the German scene does this extremely well, I think, with the likes of Killing Joke, The Fall and Marc Almond playing at various goth fests....

We need more of this. The only way for the scene as a whole to thrive is to get people from outside it to like some of the bands in it. They don't need to wear eyeliner and go to Slimelight, but a *lot* of bands have crossover potential, if we can point it at the right people! Get promoters working for the bands rather than concentrating on short-term gain!

Thirdly, sod the UK and concentrate on hitting it big elsewhere. Somewhere with a healthier live scene that's not quite so isolated. Tricky, but it just might work.

Well we're playing Canada ;) I hear the audiences there aren't always the most responsive though. I think the problem I've noticed is that unless you're a "name band", you're going to do well to get gigs abroad, and a UK band can't become a name band without playing your arse out in the UK, which means playing shit gigs that noone goes to, hence never becoming recognised for what you are.

Something needs to be done!

Speaking from a promoter's stand point... it's damn hard to actually put on a show with crossover potential as those bands from outside the scene are used to bigger audiences, venues and pay cheques than most goth promoters can afford (Unless you're Flag or Whitby.

We had talks with the Damned for a Malediction, but they were after a fair amount of money, plus hotels for a couple of days for them and their road crew, a certain level PA, decent backstage facilities etc. etc. etc. It soon racked up to well beyond the scope where we could afford it, or expect enough people to turn up to cover it. VNV on the other hand are still dirt cheap by comparison (being almost a quarter of the price!)

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Canada is also responsible for Frontline Assembly (and all said spin offs : Delerium, Conjour One, Pro Tech etc.), Skinny Puppy (and spin offs), Strapping young Lad and many many more decent bands.

So to limit them to Bryan Adams and Celine Dion is a little silly ;)

well there you go then. That's today's lesson sorted :)

Well we're playing Canada ;) I hear the audiences there aren't always the most responsive though.

That can be true - I have one friend who's a veteran of the Toronto band scene who calls it "stiff city".

OTOH, I've been to plenty of gigs in Toronto where the audience was very lively. Unfortunately these tend to be big name bands.

One thing that would help would be the thing you and others complained about at Gotham: better sound and more professionalism with regards to the details. A lot of bands would be happier and the fans would like it as well.

And, a lot of bands I know complain about Flag (and wish Nemesis was still around). I spoke to one band last night who were asked to play some London gigs, but, it would be a loss for them if having to do it for a percentage. They would just like a reasonable flat fee (as Flag demands for the bands he manages).

Part of the problem is the lack of non-goth press most bands have. I think if Rock Scene was doing what it did when it first started (featured goth bands on the free CD and in the magazine), a lot more bands would have that crossover potential.

... that and most British goth bands are a terrible disapointment 'live'. (Notable exceptions to the 'skript and Dreamies, but any band that has the temerity to be two people with a DAT is just posh karaoke and looks it)

Are there any of these in the goth world? I've seen a few harp+flute bands, or violin/cello duets. But that's a different kettle of fish...

Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against small bands, it's just that watching someone singing along to a DAT/MD is the most tedious thing known to humanity. VNV Nation being a prime example of how to be quite palatable on CD and totally gash on stage. And a lot of goth bands do this. Presumably because there's just not enough money in the scene to carry any more than 3 people in a band, unless you're Manuskript.

And although the Dreamies do use a DAT, at least they have the decency to also use real live drummers and bassists, which makes a hell of a lot of difference to their sound and presence. Much like Switchblade Symphony, who are DATted and synthed up to the nines, but have the decency to have some real life brass, which adds a lot.

Maybe goth is just a genre that's best 'enjoyed' in the comfort of one's bedroom, alone, with plenty of candles and a Lovecraft book...

To Be honest this is EXATLY The nail on the head why people dont go to gigs, and especally when they have an internet collection they can downlaod what ever they like and not even pay for it.

Nah, I don't buy that. Not getting the CD because you've downloaded the pirated mp3s, that's one thing. Not going to see the band play live, though...?

That's no more likely, IMHO, than not going to see the band because you can listen to the CD at home. Or the tape/record.